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Showing posts with label 2012 Honda Civic Hybrid. Show all posts
Showing posts with label 2012 Honda Civic Hybrid. Show all posts

Monday, August 29, 2011

Inside Line: Comparison Test: 2012 Honda Civic Hybrid vs. 2011 Toyota Prius Five

Here's a really good article featuring two really good hybrids....

The New and Improved Honda Takes on the Undisputed King of Hybrids

By Mike Magrath, Features Editor Published Aug 26, 2011





As an only child, I missed some valuable life lessons. Sharing for example. Group dynamics are confusing, too. And finally, my last character flaw as influenced by my parents' halted procreation, to me compromise is a dirty, dirty word.




But, with each new phase in life, the C-word becomes more prominent. Bless those who can drive their caged Miatas, track-ready BMWs or cherry-bombed Corvettes on a daily basis. For the rest of us, though, a balance must be struck. Rear seats, fuel economy and tolerable in-cabin decibel levels become priorities and all of a sudden, a hybrid starts looking like a good idea.




Two of the best hybrids available right now are the 2011 Toyota Prius and the all-new 2012 Honda Civic Hybrid. They have four doors, reasonable cargo space, affordable prices and big-time fuel economy numbers. Each one has its own compromises, so we set out to find which car we found more tolerable, or maybe even likable.




One Old, One New


The 2011 Toyota Prius is, mechanically, the same car we've seen before. It features a pair of electric motors and a 27 kW nickel-metal hydride battery pack that provides a 36-horsepower shove for the electric half of the equation. A 98-hp 1.8-liter Atkinson-cycle four-cylinder represents the conventional internal-combustion half. A planetary-type continuously variable transmission (CVT) figures out how to get the power to the front wheels. It's a respectable system that transitions smoothly between electric and full-blown hybrid mode.




The Honda Civic Hybrid, on the other hand, utilizes a 1.5-liter four-cylinder gas engine and newer 20kW lithium-ion batteries, which have a higher energy density than nickel-metal hydride batteries. The electric motor in the Civic Hybrid is parked between the CVT and the car's conventional engine. This means that any time the motor spins, the engine spins and vice-versa. Honda calls this system IMA for Integrated Motor Assist. Unlike with the Prius, there's no pure electric drive, but there is some engineless coasting available at certain constant speeds. In the Civic, if the engine can be off without ruining the ride quality, it will be off thanks to the car's automatic start/stop functionality and active Eco mode.




Because You Deserve It


There was already enough sacrifice going on in a test of two hybrids, so we skipped over the base model cars ($22,120 for the Prius One and $24,050 for the Honda Civic Hybrid) and went straight to the top. Our 2012 Honda Civic Hybrid with leather and navigation carried a sticker price of $27,500, which includes heated leather seats, navigation, Bluetooth, a tilt-and-telescoping steering wheel, 15-inch alloy wheels, automatic headlights and steering-wheel-mounted audio controls.




The top tier of Priusdom is the Prius Five. (Do not confuse this with the Prius V.) For the privilege of being the most pampered, you get to shell out $29,080. And that's before options. We'd skip the $5,080 Advanced Technology package seen here (nav, dynamic cruise, pre-collision, advanced parking system, lane keeping assist) and opt for the $2,380 nav system instead. That move would lower the Prius from our MSRP of $34,719 to a more reasonable $32,489.




With all of this trimming, it's easy to forget that these cars start out as relatively inexpensive compacts. But beyond the leather, beyond the multimedia information screens and beyond the atypical powertrains, the way these cars drive makes you forget their natural station in life.




On the Road


With a steeply raked windscreen, thin pillars and a low dash afforded by the centrally mounted everything, the Prius feels twice as big as it is — in a good way. There's no small-car intimidation factor. Perhaps this explains the way Prius drivers try to own the road.




The ride, too, mimics that of a large car, with minimal noise and harshness and a tendency to rebound a fairly impressive sine wave after severe impacts. And, like any decent large car, the Prius' steering and brakes are unobtrusive to the point of being annoying. The steering is weightier than that of previous Prii, but this is a result of reprogrammed steering electrons and not a revised, improved connection to the wheels.




On the Road


With a steeply raked windscreen, thin pillars and a low dash afforded by the centrally mounted everything, the Prius feels twice as big as it is — in a good way. There's no small-car intimidation factor. Perhaps this explains the way Prius drivers try to own the road. The ride, too, mimics that of a large car, with minimal noise and harshness and a tendency to rebound a fairly impressive sine wave after severe impacts. And, like any decent large car, the Prius' steering and brakes are unobtrusive to the point of being annoying. The steering is weightier than that of previous Prii, but this is a result of reprogrammed steering electrons and not a revised, improved connection to the wheels.




The real surprise in this test was the ride quality of the 2012 Honda Civic Hybrid. It's good enough to ignore the painfully slow 0-30 time and the confused start/stop system that gets behind itself in slow traffic. It's good enough that every editor who had it came back with pretty much the same impression: "Dude, the ride."




It's an enviably good mix of damping and spring rates that results in a ride that isn't floaty or harsh. And despite its compliance over rough pavement, when the road gets bendy, the Civic Hybrid sets firmly without the body roll you'd expect from a hybrid. It is still a Civic after all. You'll never confuse this for a large car ride, yet you'll wonder why everyone talks up those big cars so much anyway.




We've had experiences with light cars where a few hundred pounds of gear really makes for a marked improvement in ride quality, and we think that's what's happening here, as the non-hybrid 2012 Civic wasn't this impressive. As impressive as the ride is, the Civic does suffer from higher levels of in-cabin noise than the Prius. From wind noise to tire noise to the crude stutter of the engine firing back to life, there's little peace found inside the Civic.




Because Driving for Fuel Economy Is Boring


Before we donned our fuel-saving caps and glass-soled shoes, we had one last foray into the world we know best: the test track.




It feels wrong, but throttling the 2012 Honda Civic Hybrid on a closed track actually sounds right. It sounds normal. Like a Honda. Of course, it also comes to a stop like a Honda.




Digging into the pavement from 60 mph, the 2,830-pound Civic managed to stop in a barely-Dodge-Power Wagon-beating 137 feet. Blame rear drums. Blame low-rolling-resistance Bridgestone Ecopia EP20 tires. Blame whom or whatever you want, the effect is a braking system that instills no driver confidence.




If you are presented with enough room to hold down the throttle without having to worry about any sort of emergency stop at the other end, the Civic Hybrid hits 60 in 10.1 seconds (9.7 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip) and goes on to complete the quarter-mile in 17.5 seconds at 80.1 mph.




The Prius lacked both the Civic's drama in braking and its familiar-if-not-pleasant engine note. Thanks to the slick CVT, the Prius' engine droned for 10.2 seconds when we hit 60 mph (9.8 seconds with rollout) and then for another 17.4 seconds as we ran the quarter-mile at 79.3 mph. When asked to stop from 60, the 3,138-pound Prius dug in and clawed out a perfectly standard 124-foot stop.




Things continued to be a relative tie in our handling tests. Despite the Prius being the poster child of terrible dynamics and the Civic's legacy as the real driver's economy car, the numbers were remarkably similar. The Toyota squealed around our skid pad at 0.79g while the Civic pulled 0.76g. The Toyota finished the slalom averaging 61.2 mph, behind the Civic's 62.8 mph.

And because this is that kind of test, the Honda recorded 20 mpg during track testing and the Prius flattened it with a whopping 24 mpg.




Because Gas Is Expensive


The first thing you should know about this portion of our journey is that we did not do a fuel economy loop. Fuel economy loops are designed to simulate some ideal mix of traffic-free, low-and-medium-speed events with few stops, little incline and a slew of otherwise idealistic environments. They've got as much to do with real-world driving as a strip club does with dating. Sure, it's a neat benchmark, but you can't get disappointed when the real world doesn't quite live up to it.




Could we have squeezed out more — potentially double — the miles per gallon by ignoring the flow of traffic, side-stepping hills and swapping our work schedules to reduce the chance of seeing another car? Sure. But we could do that with our current vehicles. The draw of a hybrid is that you don't have to change your behavior to improve your environmental impact.

So we picked editors with different commutes — heavy city traffic, light off-hours highway traffic and a near 50:50 mix of city and highway — and let them have at it with the charge that they're to drive as if their own dollars are on the line.




So we drove these two hybrids like we owned them and tabulated the results.




In our unstandardized, unstaged, real-world tests, the Toyota Prius fell below its 51 city/48 highway/50 combined EPA mpg estimate. We averaged just 39.8 mpg, with a best tank of 45.8 mpg and a worst tank of 34.9 mpg. The worst tank was a result of a long drive on a very empty freeway.




The Civic is rated by the EPA at 44 mpg. Everywhere. City: 44. Highway: 44. Combined? Yep, you guessed it. 44. And unlike the Prius, we managed to catch a glimpse of the elusive EPA number with one 44.8 mpg trek. Overall, though, we only squeezed 38.8 mpg out of the Civic Hybrid.




A 1 mile-per-gallon difference in the real world? Slight advantage to the Prius.

Because in Every Compromise, There's a LoserWe know why people buy hybrids. Be it carpool stickers or fitting in at the local Starbucks, there's an external motivator in the purchase that no math can dent.




Though it has a slight edge in ride quality, the 2012 Honda Civic Hybrid — with its normal dash, conventional shifter, traditional engine note and Civic-like driving dynamics — is almost too normal. It doesn't look special, it doesn't feel special and the IMA system compromises practicality and drivetrain smoothness. Each time the engine jumps back to life, hooking up to the transmission with the subtleness of a first-time clutch user, the compromises of a mixed drivetrain smack you square in the face.




The 2011 Toyota Prius was designed as a hybrid with a unique, instantly recognizable shape that emphasizes function over form and a drivetrain that channels the flow of power as seamlessly as runoff trickles into the Mississippi.




There are times to rebel, to swim against the school, and then there are times to fall in line. The easier compromise here is the car that makes you forget what real cars are like, that coddles and amuses as it delivers superlative fuel economy. In this case, that would be the Toyota Prius.



The manufacturers provided Edmunds these vehicles for the purposes of evaluation.




Source;




Tuesday, June 7, 2011

Civic hybrid tests Honda's new strategy

Despite being the first to sell an electric-gasoline car in the United States and making hybrid technology a centerpiece of its fuel economy push, Honda Motor Co. has yet to have a hybrid hit.

But the redesigned Civic Hybrid, launched April 20, is the first test of whether Honda's new strategy of tapping lithium ion batteries and, later, two-motor systems can break the streak.

Past Honda hybrids have fallen short on fuel economy, as the Insight did against the Toyota Prius, or on power, as the short-lived Honda Accord hybrid fared against nonhybrid rivals.

Honda's new hybrid plan aims to fix both problems.

The first improvement is using lithium ion batteries, made by Blue Energy Co., a joint venture between Honda and GS Yuasa Corp. The goal is to save weight and space, while increasing fuel economy. But the new batteries are costly.

The new Civic's lithium battery weighs 48.5 pounds, compared with 69 pounds for its predecessor's nickel-metal hydride battery. That helps the new Civic Hybrid get 44 mpg in both city and highway driving , edging the previous generation's EPA rating of 40 city/43 highway.

The updated hybrid also gets a lighter, more powerful electric motor, with output increased to 17 kilowatts, from 15 kilowatts. It also offers more cabin space.

Its sticker starts at $24,800, including shipping, just $100 more than the earlier version's base price. But the Civic's sticker tops the Prius' base price of $22,880, including shipping.

So far sales have been sluggish. That is due in part to limited availability of the Japan-made hybrid because of earthquake-induced supply chain disruptions. Through May, Honda sold only 389 new Civic Hybrids in the United States, less than 1 percent of all Civics sold in that period. In 2010, hybrids accounted for 3 percent of the 260,218 Civics sold.

But slashing costs eventually will be key to driving sales higher.

"Toyota has already reduced the cost of its hybrid system over several years," says Toru Hatano, a powertrain analyst at IHS Global Insight in Tokyo. "But Honda is launching a whole new system, so we can expect their costs to be higher in the near term."

Honda also will install lithium ion batteries in a new two-motor hybrid system debuting next year in the United States for mid-sized plug-in hybrids.

Honda hasn't said what car gets it first. But engineers are testing the system in an Accord. A suitcase-sized lithium ion battery pack sits behind the back seat, eating trunk space.

An engineer involved with the project said testing is expected to continue through year end, and the company must decide if the 15-mile range in electric-only mode is sufficient. If user feedback suggests more range is needed, Honda will have to make the battery bigger or cut the car's weight, he said.

"We think a 15 mile range satisfies about 70 percent of the users," he said.

Already, Honda has tweaked the plug-in version of the Accord with an aluminum hood and other weight shavings. But the plug-in still weighs 330 pounds more than its gasoline counterpart.

Honda is rolling out the new hybrid system to counter criticism that its current technology is too weak to provide extended electric-only travel. The Integrated Motor Assist system used in the Insight, Civic and CR-Z hybrids uses the electric motor mostly to assist the gasoline engine.

The new system uses one traction motor to move the car and one generator motor to recharge the battery. The former, a 120-kilowatt motor, is combined with a 2.0-liter, four cylinder engine and continuously variable transmission.

The car has a top speed of 62 mph in electric-only mode, but a big question will be how far it can travel at that speed. The Accord plug-in hybrid can recharge in four hours from a 100-volt source or in 1.5 hours from a 200-volt source, the engineer said.

Honda President Takanobu Ito said last fall that the new hybrid system for larger vehicles will give electric-gasoline drivetrains a bigger slice of Honda's global sales -- pushing hybrids to around 10 percent of global sales by 2015, from less than 5 percent in 2009.

The electrified powertrains also will feature prominently in the Acura lineup, Ito said, reinforcing what he calls the "smart premium" image to which the brand aspires.
Source;
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110606/CARNEWS/110609917#ixzz1Ob4yjDH4

Monday, May 9, 2011

Popular Mechanics: 2012 Honda Civic vs. 2011 Toyota Prius: Hybrid Mileage Test


We pitted the all-new 2012 Civic Hybrid against the reining mpg champ, the Toyota Prius, in our own mileage test. Can a Honda hybrid finally beat Toyota?
By Ben Stewart


Over most of the last decade, there has been one benchmark when it comes to automotive fuel efficiency: the Toyota Prius. Its reputation is so strong, in fact, that Toyota decided to create an entire family of Prius vehicles, beginning this year with the Prius V. Since 1999, Honda has been producing its own line of hybrids. Its first, the Insight, was a fuel economy champ itself. But no Honda hybrid since has been able to match the Prius. That may change with the new 2012 Civic Hybrid, which is closer than ever to becoming "Honda's Prius." To find out how Honda's latest stacks up against Toyota, we devised a two-day, two-route, 550-mile test to challenge the two fuel economy all-stars. One route covered the city streets to approximate a week's worth of commuting; the other was an all-highway blast to replicate a road trip. We filled up both cars for each route at the same pump, at the same gas station. Can the Prius hold onto its top spot as the reining fuel economy champ?



The Specs


Toyota uses a pair of electric motors, and a continuously variable transmission (CVT) to join them, mounted to the 1.8-liter four-cylinder engine. This system allows the Prius to use several combinations of electric and/or gasoline power—including an all-electric mode. There's even an EV switch that locks the Prius in battery mode until the range of the 6.5 amp hour nickel-metal hydride pack is used up. Toyota delivers a total system horsepower of 134. Honda's system, meanwhile, is very similar to the last Civic Hybrid and the current Insight. The electric motor sits in between the CVT and the gasoline engine. So, unlike the Prius, the gas engine in the Civic must always turn—when in electric cruise mode, the gas engine essentially freewheels. The Civic's four cylinder has grown to 1.5-liters from 1.3-liters. And when combined with the new, more powerful 23 hp electric motor, it delivers 110 system horsepower. But the big news is the lighter and more powerful 4.5 amp hour lithium-ion battery pack (still mounted behind the rear seats). The Prius can become expensive quickly as you add options like the self-parking system. It's not uncommon to see a fully loaded Prius sticker for close to $35,000. The new Civic Hybrid doesn't offer these options, so it is generally much less expensive. We opted to test a $24,369 Toyota Prius 2 model against a $27,500 Civic Hybrid Nav model. The EPA rates the Prius at 51mpg city and 48 mpg on the highway, while the 2012 Civic Hybrid is rated at 44 mpg for both city and highway. But how do they handle real world testing?



The Highway Drive


Beginning in Santa Monica, we cruised up the California coast to U.S. Route 101 and pressed onward, north of Santa Maria. To even out any differences in driving style between PM's testers, we switched cars often and locked the cruise control at or below 70 mph whenever possible. The Civic may have an all-new, more aerodynamic skin, but beneath it the chassis tuning feels quite similar to the last Civic Hybrid we tested. Actually, of any hybrid we've tested, this new Honda comes the closest to the ride quality of the Prius—partly because they ride on the same 196/65R15 Bridgestone Ecopia tires. The Civic's new dash and display look much like the Prius's, except they are located in front of the driver's sight line and easier to read. The Prius's futuristic dash lets everyone know that you've got plenty of advanced tech onboard. But the fresh, modern dash and center console of the Civic is more inviting if you prefer a conventional car, which we do. Both cars are far from luxurious, however. Hard plastic covers most of the interior. Slide into the backseats, and the two cars appear to have equal headroom. But there's a bit less legroom in the Honda, and its roofline requires that taller passengers duck as they exit the rear doors. In terms of cargo, the Civic's trunk holds 10.7 cubic feet—an increase from the previous model, but just half the capacity of the Prius. After 354 highway miles, we decided that the Civic was the more comfortable of the two—the Prius feels a bit more susceptible to crosswind and generally produces more freeway noise. But when we filled both cars up at the end of the day, the Prius was the highway fuel economy champ, returning 51.4 mpg. The Civic delivered a very respectable 47.1 mpg.



The City Drive


The next day, we headed east and hit the streets. For this test, we'd drive an all-city route from Santa Monica to San Bernardino, and back. We never put a tire on a freeway and never exceeded 45 mph—a true test of city fuel economy. On these roads, the Prius was nearly silent most of the time, creeping along in electric-only mode. The Civic always needed its gas motor to idle, but the smart and aggressive engine stop-start system would often cut power when we were coasting up to a light under light loads. As soon as the light turned green and our foot released the brake, the engine started quickly. And once under way, the Civic stays in electric mode longer than before. On a few of the backroads near Glendora, the Civic was the more engaging partner. Neither car will be mistaken for a sport sedan, but spirited driving just feels more natural in the Honda. After 198 miles and ten hours of traffic congestion, the Prius once again came out on top when we refueled back in Santa Monica. This time, the Toyota delivered 50.2 mpg to Honda's 43.7 mpg.



The Bottom Line


In out test, both hybrids exceeded their EPA ratings. Averaging our two loops, the Prius delivered 50.8 mpg while the Civic returned 45.4 mpg. The Prius remains the unequivocal hybrid fuel economy king, but the Civic is closing the gap. If gasoline prices continue to rise much beyond today's $4 per gallon national average, both Toyota and Honda should see sales of these two hybrids skyrocket. But if we could have just one of these cars to drive every day, our pick would be the slightly-more-fun Honda.


Source; 2012 Honda Civic Hybrid - 2011 Toyota Prius - Popular Mechanics

Friday, January 21, 2011

What will a new battery mean for the Honda Civic Hybrid?

No more IMA lights?

Despite its more mild hybrid tendencies I’ve mostly been a fan of Honda’s hybrid cars. However, a number of battery-related problems in recent years have made me question Honda’s commitment to hybrids.

But, now that lithium will replace the sometimes shoddy NiMH battery packs in the upcoming 2012 Civic hybrid, it might be time to forgive and forget.

OK. For those now suffering or having suffered through Honda’s hybrid problems, there might never be forgiveness. Honda’s handling of some of the problems facing early Honda hybrid supporters has been appalling. Period.

Thinking forward, however, Honda is an important automaker and their hybrid vehicles have great meaning in the fuel economy debate. Consequently, some 2012 Honda Civic hybrid spyshots on InsideLine set up an obvious question: How much more fuel efficient will the new lithium-powered Civic hybrid be?

The spyshots show the new Civic hybrid being tested along with the Toyota Prius and the Honda Insight. Thus, its impossible not to wonder how close the new Civic hybrid will come to matching the fuel economy numbers of the Prius.

Without a larger battery pack, catching up to the Prius seems impossible. However, adding a larger battery pack, especially one made of lithium, also increases costs. Of course, no automaker made the kind of NiMH investment that did Toyota. So, maybe the cost difference between lithium and NiMH isn’t as extreme for Honda.

Anyway, greatly looking forward to the final Civic hybrid fuel economy numbers.

Source;
http://www.favstocks.com/what-will-a-new-battery-mean-for-the-honda-civic-hybrid/1831444/
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