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Showing posts with label Honda VS Toyota. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Honda VS Toyota. Show all posts

Monday, August 29, 2011

Inside Line: Comparison Test: 2012 Honda Civic Hybrid vs. 2011 Toyota Prius Five

Here's a really good article featuring two really good hybrids....

The New and Improved Honda Takes on the Undisputed King of Hybrids

By Mike Magrath, Features Editor Published Aug 26, 2011





As an only child, I missed some valuable life lessons. Sharing for example. Group dynamics are confusing, too. And finally, my last character flaw as influenced by my parents' halted procreation, to me compromise is a dirty, dirty word.




But, with each new phase in life, the C-word becomes more prominent. Bless those who can drive their caged Miatas, track-ready BMWs or cherry-bombed Corvettes on a daily basis. For the rest of us, though, a balance must be struck. Rear seats, fuel economy and tolerable in-cabin decibel levels become priorities and all of a sudden, a hybrid starts looking like a good idea.




Two of the best hybrids available right now are the 2011 Toyota Prius and the all-new 2012 Honda Civic Hybrid. They have four doors, reasonable cargo space, affordable prices and big-time fuel economy numbers. Each one has its own compromises, so we set out to find which car we found more tolerable, or maybe even likable.




One Old, One New


The 2011 Toyota Prius is, mechanically, the same car we've seen before. It features a pair of electric motors and a 27 kW nickel-metal hydride battery pack that provides a 36-horsepower shove for the electric half of the equation. A 98-hp 1.8-liter Atkinson-cycle four-cylinder represents the conventional internal-combustion half. A planetary-type continuously variable transmission (CVT) figures out how to get the power to the front wheels. It's a respectable system that transitions smoothly between electric and full-blown hybrid mode.




The Honda Civic Hybrid, on the other hand, utilizes a 1.5-liter four-cylinder gas engine and newer 20kW lithium-ion batteries, which have a higher energy density than nickel-metal hydride batteries. The electric motor in the Civic Hybrid is parked between the CVT and the car's conventional engine. This means that any time the motor spins, the engine spins and vice-versa. Honda calls this system IMA for Integrated Motor Assist. Unlike with the Prius, there's no pure electric drive, but there is some engineless coasting available at certain constant speeds. In the Civic, if the engine can be off without ruining the ride quality, it will be off thanks to the car's automatic start/stop functionality and active Eco mode.




Because You Deserve It


There was already enough sacrifice going on in a test of two hybrids, so we skipped over the base model cars ($22,120 for the Prius One and $24,050 for the Honda Civic Hybrid) and went straight to the top. Our 2012 Honda Civic Hybrid with leather and navigation carried a sticker price of $27,500, which includes heated leather seats, navigation, Bluetooth, a tilt-and-telescoping steering wheel, 15-inch alloy wheels, automatic headlights and steering-wheel-mounted audio controls.




The top tier of Priusdom is the Prius Five. (Do not confuse this with the Prius V.) For the privilege of being the most pampered, you get to shell out $29,080. And that's before options. We'd skip the $5,080 Advanced Technology package seen here (nav, dynamic cruise, pre-collision, advanced parking system, lane keeping assist) and opt for the $2,380 nav system instead. That move would lower the Prius from our MSRP of $34,719 to a more reasonable $32,489.




With all of this trimming, it's easy to forget that these cars start out as relatively inexpensive compacts. But beyond the leather, beyond the multimedia information screens and beyond the atypical powertrains, the way these cars drive makes you forget their natural station in life.




On the Road


With a steeply raked windscreen, thin pillars and a low dash afforded by the centrally mounted everything, the Prius feels twice as big as it is — in a good way. There's no small-car intimidation factor. Perhaps this explains the way Prius drivers try to own the road.




The ride, too, mimics that of a large car, with minimal noise and harshness and a tendency to rebound a fairly impressive sine wave after severe impacts. And, like any decent large car, the Prius' steering and brakes are unobtrusive to the point of being annoying. The steering is weightier than that of previous Prii, but this is a result of reprogrammed steering electrons and not a revised, improved connection to the wheels.




On the Road


With a steeply raked windscreen, thin pillars and a low dash afforded by the centrally mounted everything, the Prius feels twice as big as it is — in a good way. There's no small-car intimidation factor. Perhaps this explains the way Prius drivers try to own the road. The ride, too, mimics that of a large car, with minimal noise and harshness and a tendency to rebound a fairly impressive sine wave after severe impacts. And, like any decent large car, the Prius' steering and brakes are unobtrusive to the point of being annoying. The steering is weightier than that of previous Prii, but this is a result of reprogrammed steering electrons and not a revised, improved connection to the wheels.




The real surprise in this test was the ride quality of the 2012 Honda Civic Hybrid. It's good enough to ignore the painfully slow 0-30 time and the confused start/stop system that gets behind itself in slow traffic. It's good enough that every editor who had it came back with pretty much the same impression: "Dude, the ride."




It's an enviably good mix of damping and spring rates that results in a ride that isn't floaty or harsh. And despite its compliance over rough pavement, when the road gets bendy, the Civic Hybrid sets firmly without the body roll you'd expect from a hybrid. It is still a Civic after all. You'll never confuse this for a large car ride, yet you'll wonder why everyone talks up those big cars so much anyway.




We've had experiences with light cars where a few hundred pounds of gear really makes for a marked improvement in ride quality, and we think that's what's happening here, as the non-hybrid 2012 Civic wasn't this impressive. As impressive as the ride is, the Civic does suffer from higher levels of in-cabin noise than the Prius. From wind noise to tire noise to the crude stutter of the engine firing back to life, there's little peace found inside the Civic.




Because Driving for Fuel Economy Is Boring


Before we donned our fuel-saving caps and glass-soled shoes, we had one last foray into the world we know best: the test track.




It feels wrong, but throttling the 2012 Honda Civic Hybrid on a closed track actually sounds right. It sounds normal. Like a Honda. Of course, it also comes to a stop like a Honda.




Digging into the pavement from 60 mph, the 2,830-pound Civic managed to stop in a barely-Dodge-Power Wagon-beating 137 feet. Blame rear drums. Blame low-rolling-resistance Bridgestone Ecopia EP20 tires. Blame whom or whatever you want, the effect is a braking system that instills no driver confidence.




If you are presented with enough room to hold down the throttle without having to worry about any sort of emergency stop at the other end, the Civic Hybrid hits 60 in 10.1 seconds (9.7 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip) and goes on to complete the quarter-mile in 17.5 seconds at 80.1 mph.




The Prius lacked both the Civic's drama in braking and its familiar-if-not-pleasant engine note. Thanks to the slick CVT, the Prius' engine droned for 10.2 seconds when we hit 60 mph (9.8 seconds with rollout) and then for another 17.4 seconds as we ran the quarter-mile at 79.3 mph. When asked to stop from 60, the 3,138-pound Prius dug in and clawed out a perfectly standard 124-foot stop.




Things continued to be a relative tie in our handling tests. Despite the Prius being the poster child of terrible dynamics and the Civic's legacy as the real driver's economy car, the numbers were remarkably similar. The Toyota squealed around our skid pad at 0.79g while the Civic pulled 0.76g. The Toyota finished the slalom averaging 61.2 mph, behind the Civic's 62.8 mph.

And because this is that kind of test, the Honda recorded 20 mpg during track testing and the Prius flattened it with a whopping 24 mpg.




Because Gas Is Expensive


The first thing you should know about this portion of our journey is that we did not do a fuel economy loop. Fuel economy loops are designed to simulate some ideal mix of traffic-free, low-and-medium-speed events with few stops, little incline and a slew of otherwise idealistic environments. They've got as much to do with real-world driving as a strip club does with dating. Sure, it's a neat benchmark, but you can't get disappointed when the real world doesn't quite live up to it.




Could we have squeezed out more — potentially double — the miles per gallon by ignoring the flow of traffic, side-stepping hills and swapping our work schedules to reduce the chance of seeing another car? Sure. But we could do that with our current vehicles. The draw of a hybrid is that you don't have to change your behavior to improve your environmental impact.

So we picked editors with different commutes — heavy city traffic, light off-hours highway traffic and a near 50:50 mix of city and highway — and let them have at it with the charge that they're to drive as if their own dollars are on the line.




So we drove these two hybrids like we owned them and tabulated the results.




In our unstandardized, unstaged, real-world tests, the Toyota Prius fell below its 51 city/48 highway/50 combined EPA mpg estimate. We averaged just 39.8 mpg, with a best tank of 45.8 mpg and a worst tank of 34.9 mpg. The worst tank was a result of a long drive on a very empty freeway.




The Civic is rated by the EPA at 44 mpg. Everywhere. City: 44. Highway: 44. Combined? Yep, you guessed it. 44. And unlike the Prius, we managed to catch a glimpse of the elusive EPA number with one 44.8 mpg trek. Overall, though, we only squeezed 38.8 mpg out of the Civic Hybrid.




A 1 mile-per-gallon difference in the real world? Slight advantage to the Prius.

Because in Every Compromise, There's a LoserWe know why people buy hybrids. Be it carpool stickers or fitting in at the local Starbucks, there's an external motivator in the purchase that no math can dent.




Though it has a slight edge in ride quality, the 2012 Honda Civic Hybrid — with its normal dash, conventional shifter, traditional engine note and Civic-like driving dynamics — is almost too normal. It doesn't look special, it doesn't feel special and the IMA system compromises practicality and drivetrain smoothness. Each time the engine jumps back to life, hooking up to the transmission with the subtleness of a first-time clutch user, the compromises of a mixed drivetrain smack you square in the face.




The 2011 Toyota Prius was designed as a hybrid with a unique, instantly recognizable shape that emphasizes function over form and a drivetrain that channels the flow of power as seamlessly as runoff trickles into the Mississippi.




There are times to rebel, to swim against the school, and then there are times to fall in line. The easier compromise here is the car that makes you forget what real cars are like, that coddles and amuses as it delivers superlative fuel economy. In this case, that would be the Toyota Prius.



The manufacturers provided Edmunds these vehicles for the purposes of evaluation.




Source;




Tuesday, February 1, 2011

Toyota Prius cedes Japan car market leadership to Honda Fit in Jan.

TOKYO (Kyodo) -- Toyota Motor Corp.'s Prius hybrid surrendered its leadership in Japan's passenger car market in January for the first time in 20 months, with Honda Motor Co.'s subcompact Fit likely to capture the top slot, industry sources said Tuesday.

Overall vehicle sales in January, excluding minivehicles with engines of up to 660 cc, tumbled 21.5 percent from a year earlier to 187,154 units, falling for the fifth consecutive month, the Japan Automobile Dealers Association said the same day.

While sales of the Prius began falling year on year after the government subsidy program to promote eco-friendly car purchases ended in September, Fit sales have been robust due to the launch in October of a hybrid model with a starting price of 1.59 million yen, the most inexpensive in Japan among vehicles powered by electric motors and gasoline.

The sales rankings do not include minicars, but the Fit is likely to have become the front-runner in January for the first time since December 2007 even if minivehicle data are included, the sources said.

In January, Fit sales totaled about 15,000 units, up around 10 percent from a year earlier, with Prius sales at some 14,000 units, down an estimated 40 percent, according to the sources.
The Prius apparently lost some of its potential buyers to Toyota's all-new, fuel-efficient Vitz subcompact, which hit the market in December.

Among best-selling minivehicles, Daihatsu Motor Co.'s Move and Tanto sold some 9,000 units each between Jan. 1 and 28, and Suzuki Motor Corp.'s WagonR about 8,000 units, according to the sources.

The official sales rankings data are due to be released by the Japan Automobile Dealers Association and the Japan Mini Vehicles Association on Friday.

In January, passenger car sales excluding minicars dived 23.8 percent from a year earlier to 167,574 units. Cargo vehicle sales climbed 7.5 percent to 18,863 units, while bus sales tumbled 25.5 percent to 717 vehicles.

Source;
http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/business/news/20110201p2g00m0bu085000c.html

Monday, January 17, 2011

Car Advice: Honda Insight VTi-L v Toyota Prius: hybrid car comparison

Here is probably the most comprehensive comparison between these two Hybrids that I've ever seen....
http://www.caradvice.com.au/96626/honda-insight-vti-l-vs-toyota-prius-hybrid-comparison/
Conclusion
The 2011 Honda Insight VTi-L is the car for you if:
-You want a safe compact car with an impressive standard features list
-You don’t have a burning desire to drive in fully electric mode
-You think you’ll get a kick out of driving efficiently and growing digital dashboard trees
-You want to pay for the vehicle now and are not considering financing it
The 2011 Toyota Prius is the car for you if:
-You have fuel efficiency and low emissions among your top priorities
-You would prefer a little extra space and performance
-You can live without satellite navigation, a USB port and other practical gadgets
-You are planning to finance it

Tuesday, January 4, 2011

2011 Honda Odyssey Touring Elite vs. 2011 Toyota Sienna XLE Comparison Test

Excellent comparison done by Inside Line, I included the final part of the artical....


Crowning the Ultimate Minivan
Though they have different personalities, the 2011 Honda Odyssey Touring Elite and 2011 Toyota Sienna XLE both offer smart, relevant designs in packages that go a long way toward accommodating every possible desire of the modern family. There isn't another vehicle class that's so singularly focused on the very details that make it perfect for the target customer.

Sure, some say the 2011 Honda Odyssey looks like a side-by-side refrigerator-freezer. Others criticize its beltline hitch and not-so-subtle door-slider track, but whether you're talking about seating configuration or slalom performance, the Honda Odyssey Touring Elite is the ultimate minivan of 2011.

Sienna detractors might say it looks like a hospital gurney with a satin sheet thrown over it, and that it handles like a gurney to boot. However, if you're looking for an extremely low-impact, smooth and quiet minivan (or one with a four-cylinder engine or all-wheel drive), there's good reason to consider a 2011 Toyota Sienna.

The Odyssey Touring Elite is the better overall value, though, as its boatload of features easily offsets its price disadvantage versus the Toyota Sienna XLE. Moreover, the Honda's road manners will win the heart of any car-guy-turned-family-man. Forget crossovers. The 2011 Honda Odyssey Touring Elite is the closest thing there is to an eight-passenger sport sedan.

Source;
http://www.insideline.com/honda/odyssey/2011/2011-honda-odyssey-touring-elite-vs-2011-toyota-sienna-xle-comparison-test.html
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